Talking Cures
Because Pain illness and fatigue are destructive to our
Health, Wealth and Well being...

Parents; how important are they in their Children's Health?

The posting by EDP 24 (Facebook) requested speaking to Parents of Children being expelled from School.

The thrust of this page is now to discuss...

...As People we are Children of Parents and as Adults we are Parents of Children...

...And are unwittingly the cause of every - so called, mysterious illness.

This page is updated every time a Person replies to the EDP posting or Parents causing illness.

To which I was content - as a Parent with information that may be of interest to add a comment that may be of assistance in the understanding of this most serious and very long standing situation.

As a Parent of now many years, having recognised what was right for me, was not right for my Sons - to which some Thirty Five years ago I took at least some if not perfect steps towards ensuring my Sons grew up to be; themselves and not a clone - with mysterious illnesses of Me based on what my own Parents unwittingly demanded - of Me.

EDP 24.

Can you help us with an article we're writing about children being expelled from schools in Norfolk?

Norfolk has one of the highest rates in the country of expelled pupils and we're hoping to speak to parents whose children have been expelled.

Please get in touch with our education correspondent if you can help.

Many thanks!

Peter Smith Talking Cures Wrote a comment...

First we must accept if Children are being expelled from school, it is nothing to do with the school - it starts at home with Parents or better said lack of them.

Parents are responsible for the creation of all illness including Mental illness - no exceptions.

We must face up to this whilst we still have time.

Clare King. Not very good when you have a teacher bully a child for months and then they close forces to protect themselves! You can't blame parents solely for children getting expelled from school!

Dawn Chamberlain. What a narrow minded man you are, some children are born with these conditions it becomes apparent as they reach developmental stages!!! In very early years!!!

Simone Harper. Also some mental illnesses start as a result of bullying from other pupils, depression can happen because a school will not accept a child is being bullied by another pupil in their school.

Claire Carter. Totally disagree! Never judge a situation until you've lived through it yourself! Like.

Linda Sinclair. what an awful spiteful comment Peter, god help anyone in your family if they have a mental illness! and it may be nothing to do with mental illness, or home life, *sometimes* children simply just don't suit school life, hence home ed works for them.

Catherine Grummitt. As I said discrimination is rife in Norfolk. Educate yourself.

Janie Singh. Hi Peter I'm curious as to what qualifications you might have in regards to your comment?

Simone Harper. Janie; just mooched his page and found this... i guess there is no hope as he really believes what he said.

Tora Browne. What a crock of s##t, you small minded little man, there r many reasons why children don't or can't get along in main steam school and good forbid it ever happens to a member of your family.

Janie Singh. Simone Harper, yep I had taken a look on his web site and couldn't find any qualifications listed.

Tanya Louise Loynes. Peter Smith My boy suffered at school and was let down by many teachers they never academically assessed him until 14 and 1/2 and years of me pushing and pushing for it as he constantly struggled with the work ADHD and dyslexic with mild depression under mental health and then expelled in his 1st year of high school ( which I had over turned!) Once assessed he was actually at a learning age of an 8yr old and would never catch up before he left school ..... Now go on and blame me the parent try me !

Karen Seaward. Wow! What a statement. My child's mental illness stems from his sisters death in a road accident. Rather than offer support to him and a family struggling to help him, they tell us and him that we will be prosecuted. Because everyone knows that a little more stress on the shoulders of a struggling child, is the perfect response. Sadly the LEA have the same attitude as you, the assumption that feckless parents are the cause of absenteeism. Disgraceful!

EDP 24. Thanks for your responses.

Clare King. Shame it's not on Suffolk schools I would have been willing to share my story.

EDP 24. Hi Clare, very happy to hear your story from Suffolk too if you're able to email

Catherine Grummitt. My eldest child has had no appropriate education for 4 years. Now having to go to judicial review. Discrimination against autistic children is rife in Norfolk schools and LA.

Shane Luxton. My son has been kicked out of school 3 times the last month for petty things in total 12 days he was out that's not right If we take are children out of school for that long be get finned I asked for work for him to be done at home they said no.

Charmaine Sands. My child was excluded for 5 days yesterday and has a statement of needs its taken 3 weeks for kings Lynn special needs coordinator to get back to me !!!

Lorraine Chalke. My daughter who is autistic hasn't had any education for most part of 5 years it's disgusting how children with autism gets treated. And it's not the parent fault at all my daughter has been let down by the education department and the health system.

Linda Sinclair. I wonder if those that get expelled are told that school is not compulsory and they can be home educated?, probably a far better way for those that struggle with school!

Charmaine Sands. U need to exspose these usless so call professionals and social service which do not talk to each other share information and these poor children are left to struggle and parents frail and fighting to get there voice heard.

Bradley Mason. Why parents? Wouldn't it be better from the students them selves?

Lynda Wiggins. You are right Clare King.

Talking Cures. Thank you all for your comments, to which I will be delighted to reply to and stand by my comments.

It is abundantly clear from EDP posting this question Bullying at School although over the years I feel sure many Teaching and Mental Health institutions have had long and expensive seminars regarding this important issue - it is a rampant now as ever.

Leading me to consider - being highly educated and qualified is more of a detriment than an advantage.

Surely we would not be required to have this conversation if being qualified as a Medic or a Teacher - was of true value, demonstrated by there being no more bullying.

And to confirm as Simone Harper explored I make no pretense regarding my lack of Medical Qualifications.

Had Simone explored a little deeper on my web site - it would have become abundantly clear I have spent the past Thirty Three years treating People with Multiple long-term symptoms of Mind and Body ill health, having been often tossed aside by multiple and highly qualified medical professionals, with, "we do not know the cause and there is no known cure." The same applies with many alternative treatments.

And these days at the age of Seventy Two I write and publish on my web site my viewpoints fee of any fees! as to why in the year 2016 there are still 100,000 illnesses in the world and not one of them is the cause truly known and not one of them has a definitive cure = No more illness and no more medications.

Confirming my viewpoint is valid - if not more so than Medical Qualifications demonstrate.

The very first time I was introduced to Playground Bullying was in 1950/1 when I was at Junior school.

And I was the bully - something I was many years later - to not only regret, but understand "WHY." I for reasons unknown to myself; I - looking back, somewhat and seemingly unprovoked, embedded my teeth into the leg of one of my playground friends. An action or bullying of this style I never repeated!

From 1982 following many years of suffering I became a Hypnotherapist later creating Talking Cures, and since my very first Patient (July 1983) and still today I have pursued one therapeutic desire and one only. To constantly search, find and release a Person from the emotional lead Jacket early childhood traumas placed a Child in.

In 1991 and then a further Twenty Years of self-searching I discovered deep in my Mind and hidden for all those years had I not further developed the understandings from my tutor. My Father punch my Mother in the stomach one month before I was born, thinking I was another's in order to terminate me.

Still to date with many of the illnesses that have no known cure in working with a Person we have proved this not to be so; by using their own Immune and Body replication processes, many mysterious ever changing symptoms have ultimately been resolved by the uncovering and resolving of Parent created Traumas - sometimes even before Birth as in my own case.

Can we consider why this situation is as rampant today as ever - from Medical Professionals no matter what branch or specialty and Teachers no matter what their position are nearly all, Parents of Children.

And what they are doing in not making a rule. "If any one bullies anyone - it is immediate dismissal with NO RETURN." That includes - Teachers bullying Children.

There reason this has not happened and the reason for my comment is - Parents, Teachers or Mental Health Professionals - being drawn towards the Anxiety they try to draw away from are forever protecting their own Parents from the atrocities - they unwittingly and with all the Love they were able to muster, wrought on their Children by having the long-term principle of. "I will not let my Children Grow up to suffer in the same manner as I/we."

Failing to recognise as my long-term experience clearly demonstrates - this process is at the heart of every illness on the planet.

So in making these comments; As a Parent I blame myself, as a therapist I blame myself - for not being more vocal on this point, more than just the past year and in the same but innocent manner; I request all Parents accept this understanding - before we all are too ill to be of any value to ourselves let alone our loved Children and Grandchildren.

As stated clearly on my web site - Never is it my intention to shy away from any criticism be that of a vexatious or pleasant nature - If people ask or demand answers - then I consider it is a Fundamental Right to be heard and politely answered

This is not a Gift for being a good Boy or Girl for Mummy Daddy or Teacher.

Karen Seaward. With her comment. "My child's mental illness stems from his sisters death in a road accident." explained the process perfectly from a trauma Mental illness is created.

Tanya Louise Loynes Pompous ,opinionated?

Peter Smith Tanya Now, Now our Teachers are doing their best albeit sometimes with incorrect integrity and wisdom with damaged Children no need to call them opinionated and pompous?

Janie Singh Peter Smith Hi Peter I'm curious as to what qualifications you might have in regards to your comment?

Peter Smith Janie I have explained my qualifications in the web page I have created please read it.

Charmaine Sands. So would u say we caused my sons gender disorder or ADHD?

Which he struggled so much in school isolated from peers old Buckingham refused to take George cos he is a boy that wanted to be a girl.

 I would love to hear wot u have to say

Charmaine. Thank you for your question which I am pleased to answer for you. In so doing I would request we have an understanding.

Everything we know came to us before we knew anything about this world and with illness - after thousands of years, we are still desperately seeking to know and understand the cause.

Sadly as our dedicated Doctors are only allowed to treat the symptoms, thus the cause gets lost in the mire of so many different opinions and medications - often to treat what is clearly a Mind disorder/discomfort.

Thus when we are confronted with the truth it hurts - and so it should, that is why it is the truth.

Lies in real terms never show the damage they cause and never stop creating the damage.

Putting to rights some of this has been my pursuit of Thirty Three Years -  much to the dislike of those closest too me.

Moreover will continue despite their extremely arduous attempts to destroy my very direction.

The reason for this as I see it is; "All illness is an advantage and not in the slightest a disadvantage." Where People feel. "Do not take my illness away from me - I will not know what to do with the time without it.

For a Child not being believed or dismissed to bed by well meaning Parents unable to answer questions that challenge their knowledge and beliefs is devastating.

Yet the Child  and the Parents would not really be privy to the damaging effects of such a response.

So to answer your questions - yes; in some way both you and your husband and your respective Parents - albeit not in the slightest bit purposely; created the disorders you speak of.

Surely no loving Parent would make a their Child ill on absolute purpose! Reading this may be helpful in understanding this process. Munchausen's Syndrome.

I would ask you to consider whilst I am not in the slightest attempting to minimize the seriousness of your sons gender confusion - even this was created as I have explained. 

And as we all follow the same protocol - his peers would have no option but to dismiss him as they, being products of their Parents will not and cannot understand George is different.

So different and Possibly of extremely high intelligence - were it to be allowed to flourish.

Clearly demonstrated by the ADHD.

Gender confusion is no more, no less than an Anxiety that cannot be relieved in any other manner just the same as any illness, no matter what name it is called.

And most definitely it is not Genetic.

From here - as I do not have more information about you and your husbands childhood, I am only able to explain  with the information I have with my professional experience and knowledge.

Belief systems you and your husband - based on your own emotional education be that good bad or indifferent, altered your entire body chemistry and is so doing created a rule that started with discussions between you and your future husband.

This belief system became more active from the time of conception of your son and continued whilst you were carrying him.

It is somewhat amongst all of us based on Medical Science; Children in the womb are not aware of their surroundings - my experience tells me this could not be furthest from the truth.

Your son, via mostly your body chemistry somewhat toxic and caustic to him - picked this up and brought it into this world as a memory he could not recall.

This body chemistry acts as an exciter to the Mind and post birth will cause a confusion and an anxiety that cannot be relieved. The process of discovering Gender Identity will however hide this to a degree.

As creativity is the brakes on madness he automatically decided he would be better of as a girl and most seriously feel this would relieve the anxiety - sadly this will not be the case.         

Moreover Psychological treatments will only compound his confusion as they will want to talk about his reasons for wanting to be a Girl and he - in the depths of his Mind will desire another, as yet unknown discussion.

Creating a Frustration in him he will have no option to act out in school with a behaviour not in keeping with the teachers or schools rule book, which will daunt him for the rest of his life.

As I said Charmaine the truth hurts - I do hope I have explained the truth as gentle as possible and if you as a result of this have further questions please post them and I will answer as best I am able without the full information required for me to make an accurate and informed understanding.    

We must also accept and understand - Parents were once Children themselves and almost without exception we Children are brought up with their traditional values of. "I do not want my children to grow up to suffer in the same manner as I/we did. Sadly this only makes them suffer much worse.      

Surely from this it is not to much of a quantum leap to consider - no one can be Bullied unless they are already demonstrating being Vulnerable created by an emotional trauma earlier than the onset of the bullying

Cheryl Moore. Well, if I accept your views, which I don't, maybe we should give parents help as well - just a thought.

Cheryl. Whilst it appears I am being Confrontational - a word used to dismiss another, with I am right and you are wrong because I say so, that is not my desire.

It appears there are more People ill today despite the advances in Scientific Medicine than ever. Therefore with the knowledge I have acquired over thirty three years of only treating People considered as Medical Failures.

in order to start the process of "us" as a race of People understanding why we get ill and why we do not get well, I can think of no better place - and am not happy it has taken me so long to start the process - being old helps, than with - as you suggest, the only important People in the education of a Child - The Parents.

Ranga Nui. I'm a nurse and my husband a police officer in a loving home with no financial or social issues, my son was expelled after he lashed out after his fathers death how is that our fault?

Ranga. Forgive me if I am incorrect, it appears from your comment your son has Two Fathers - one sadly left us. If this is correct - you make my case very eloquently.

Ranga Nui. Just because my son had 2 fathers for a while is no reflection on our parenting.

Ranga. Thank you for confirming my quandary regarding your son having two fathers.

I agree with you and my comment, "I will not bring my children up to suffer in the same manner as I," confirms this.

It is not about you and your Parenting skills - it is about your son and how he first had to emotionally deal; over perhaps many more years than you and his biological Father were aware of - the gradual breakdown of your marriage and secondly the later death of his Father - to which the same principle applies - of seeing him becoming ill, way before the diagnosable symptoms began to show, then through all of the treatments he had to endure in the process of dying.

All of this time in real terms your son was on his OWN. "Ask" him and perhaps if you ask rather than demand - he may well confirm.

Surely we all must accept it is the Children who are being bullied - in all walks of life, not just school we should be concerned about; not the feelings of a distraught and loving Parent.

Update 7th February 2016.

Dear EDP 24.

You started this necessary discussion with. "Can you help us with an article we're writing about Children being expelled from schools in Norfolk?"

I somewhat purposely changed the subject to that which I felt - should have been the discussion.

"Children being made Vulnerable to bullying by loving Parents unwarranted control."

Sadly when a Teacher bullies a Child they are only teaching stupidity to all the class no matter what the size, purvey this through the whole school and we have a large number of Children now fixed as Victims and unable to many times concentrate on the situation at hand.

When as is so often the case one or both Parents favour a sibling either with great accolade for their efforts or beatings of mind or body for being stupid.

An example may be - "Why cannot you be intelligent or sensible or even well behaved like your Brother or Sister.

This ONLY make the Child worse or ill or both. And untreatable.

Thus when they go to school with this process set in their mind and misbehave - that sets them on the pathway of being bullied by all and sundry and being expelled from the School - later dismissed from their workplace on the slippery road to oblivion as perhaps a drug taker and alcoholic or even a Gangster/criminal/murderer.

They are not doing something wrong? they are trying to gather understanding in order to put right something that is terribly wrong.

I do hope this is helpful for your article or the Parents who felt I was not being at all helpful with my comments.

This is based on many years experience of treating People with multiple symptoms of Mind and Body that the medical profession were unable to find the cause of and offer a satisfactory cure or even management of the now long-term symptoms.

Finely as Bradley Mason very eloquently suggested. "Should we not ask the Children." I would add to that - instead of Dismissing them or worse; disbelieving them.

Thus I take as a most serious compliment the comment by Tora Browne. What a crock of s##t, you small minded little man.

However would care to alter. "Small Minded," to, "Narrow (single) Minded as Parents cause all illness" and. "Big Man," as demonstrated by the time I have taken to explain my comment. It would be interesting to note other professionals ability or desire to do the same.

Talking Cures and Peter Smith - never in any form or at any time past, present or will in the future receive/accept funding from any source, other than for treatments applied.

Best wishes with your article.

Kindest regards and best wishes.

Peter Smith Talking Cures

Southend on Sea - formally of Harold Hill, Romford, Essex.


Update 13th February 2016

Online discussion

Many times on Facebook and other Social Media Groups - People place posts it appears, for personal or community reasons, as the discussion below shows, as well as seek to connect with me as a Facebook Social Medical Friend...

...As well as - being for friendly discussion or serious debate; often with mysterious illnesses or Medical Professionals - interested in Talking Cures.

Always my desire is to become friends with them, share knowledge and answer questions not previously asked or answered.

Often I feel this situation prevails because there is no one able or willing - without a fee, to answer the questions or put questions to answers.

Thus at my time of life where only well-health - with Money and Possessions somewhat taking a step backwards, is the only important factor in my life.

Leaving me with the time and desire to Educate with my Thirty Three years experience of only treating People with often multiple long-term symptoms that have defied all the very best Scientifically proven as well as Complimentary and Alternative treatments, so many times without the success desired by the Patients, their Parents or the Medical Teams in attendance - ever being demonstrated.

It is never my desire to Irritate or Frustrate a Person, moreover feel; if my comments do either, then perhaps one should consider...

...The truth hurts and so it should, that is why it is the truth and Lies never in real terms show their hurt, other than in illness - which no one sees.

All of this online activity many times leading the Person involved in the discussion into Unfriending Me; where I have no option but to consider the Person is demonstrating the truth of my comments - as this discussion seeks to show.

I am of a mind when we all so often put personal information online - it is in the world wide public domain, thus free for more People than we could consider and perhaps for ever; to see...

...Where Confidentiality, Privacy, Libel and Slander perhaps no longer exist.

What follows now is in keeping with the main thrust of this web page and my continuing desire to aware us all.

Parents unwitting and in their loving ways create all illness and in keeping this secret - ill People will die as a result of illness with no known cause and no known cure - and in so doing are unwittingly protecting their Parents.

The content of this discussion is; as it was online - however I have corrected spelling errors and made slight editorial adjustments in order for it to read easier and be more informative.

The original and shared post;

Peter Smith: Few if any understand either - nor desire too.

Diane Redwood: Don't care, live day to day if it's a good day great.

Peter Smith: Diane I shudder to think what has happened to us as a race of People when the only protection we have and will die rather than give it up - is illness; as caused by our loving Parents.

Diane Redwood: Why do you say it's our Parents fault.

Words don't help with People in Pain - it is showing them they are loved. YES !!!

Peter Smith: Diane. Words caused the Pain and I did not say it was their Fault - I said they created it.

Based on their own Parents instructions and their subsequent response...

..."To not bring their Children up to suffer in the same manner as they did."

Sad part about this is, it creates all illness no exceptions.

This make all Parents responsible - not guilty if their Children are ill with ANY illness.

Diane Redwood: No I don't agree - Parents are not responsible for their Children's illness - it is what life throws at us to cope with.

Peter Smith: Diane it is over 60 years since medical science invented ME CFS Fatigue un-refreshed by sleep and rest and still today not one Medical Person has any more of a clue than 60 years ago.

There has to be an answer and I have it - as this discussion seeks to demonstrate.

One thing about me Diane - I have 33 years of experience treating only medical failures to support my point; how can you support yours?

Life throws nothing at us - it is Us if we are unable to cope with its demands; sadly it is our Parents - who have striped away our rights to cope.

Karon Healey: My daughter suffers with ME - are you saying, that it is my fault?

Peter Smith: Unwittingly both you and your Daughters Father - yes.

Sadly the truth hurts and so it should - that is why it is the truth.

Karon Healey: I don't agree at all - life itself is hard; I think you are talking out your rear end...

Peter Smith: Karon, Then show me a Medical Person able to demonstrate the cause and have a cure for your Daughter..?

...For it is clear you are far more knowledgeable than myself.

More importantly as your comment - "talking out your rear end." confirms.

Karon Healey: So are you saying that it's our fault because we as Parents were over protective of her and our Parents over protective of us - so wrapped her in a bubble !!!

Peter Smith: That is a nice way of putting it - so yes.

My position is not to Irritate more to Educate.

Karon Healey: So as her Parents by caring for my daughter made her so fatigued and in so much muscle pain ?

Where She has headaches everyday.

Peter Smith: Please do not confuse caring to controlling - somehow you and the Father placed her in Fear and it is this that caused the Headaches, Fatigue and Pain.

Maybe this will be of assistance to you and your daughter. ME CFS.

ME CFS Of all Multiple Long-term illnesses is the easiest to understand.

Karon Healey: How do you know it was not someone or something else that put her in Fear?

And I totally disagree with you on all points that you have said about ME CFS.

Peter Smith: Then if we accept your point, "someone or something else that put her in Fear?" as correct - I would have to ask who made her vulnerable.

Strangely I find everyone who has ME-CFS or is involved in the disorder - knows all about it to Medical Professor Standard; until challenged to demonstrate so.

This includes Professors who specialise in the disorder at an ME CFS research facility.

So make your argument and please demonstrate - why you disagree.

I might add - I can find no one in the world of allopathic or alternative medicine with not only better knowledge than myself - but ability to deal with all the ever changing symptoms; under one therapy regime.

Karon Healey: I think you are out of order putting things like this on People's posts.

I think you should keep your points to yourself, you have upset a few People who suffer with this illness and can you imagine how you have made them and People around them feel; it is People like you that do not help the situation - so try keep your points to yourself or for medical reviews - not on People's statuses!

Diane Redwood: You should talk to the People that are suffering - then you will have some idea of how they feel.

Peter Smith: Karon; I and for a longtime have felt it most seriously out of order when nothing is known about an illness and someone who knows nothing but the suffering - shouts down anyone who desires to make different points of view.

Those in the Medical Profession have for hundreds of years done this and is the sole reason why there are no cures for any illness.

I do Diane and have fairly extensively with your self and have done so for Thirty Three years and all I get is resentment and dismissal from the very People who are supposed to love the ones ill and should put all their energy into finding a cause and a cure - not fighting off someone who has better information, the world is screaming out for, but does not want to find.

So make your argument and demonstrate why you disagree with comments of value - if not for your own feelings, but for your Daughters.

Diane Redwood: Put your words into action?

How dare you say things about how I should be regarding my Daughter - she Died at the young age of 21 years, so you have no idea what you are talking about here.

Peter Smith: Diane have you not ignored my post based on. "Put your words into action?" your's and Karon's comments and not defended your very assertive position of - being an erudite font of knowledge and I know nothing.

It is activity as this I have long since learnt to recognise from Doctor specialists who have nothing to offer - so blame the Patient and pay on the way out please are their only valued points.

Sadly Diane I would therefore ask - what took her life so young?

And was it not you who posted the discussion about another mystery to all - Depression?

Diane Redwood: So is my ME - my fault, then whose to blame?

Peter Smith: Yes in simple terms - it was your fault as well as the Father; if you are unwilling to face the truth contained within my comments in this discussion.

Diane Redwood: So I am to be blamed for my ME - is that what you are saying?

Peter Smith: Diane-Karon. Search the internet and come back and tell me you have found just one Person in the world who understands the cause of ME CFS Fatigue.

Diane. YES without question based on unwitting instructions from your Parents you - like all of us, are responsible for your illness known as ME; as we have discussed on in a private message discussion (I retain a copy) moreover it was you and your Daughters Father and your respective Parents at the very cause - but not in the slightest GUILTY.

The discussion ended here and I was immediately UnFriended.

Funny that when illness is such a mystery to us all and with the best efforts of our many dedicated Doctors - NO ONE Ever truly becomes well with Scientifically Proven Treatments.

Well or cure = No more illness and no more medications!

In addition this discussion is surely an unambiguous demonstration the main thrust of my contribution. "Parents cause all illness," is correct.

For surely if a Parent having lost one Child through illness and having a long-term mysterious illness with no known cause and no known cure; themselves and a Mother with a Child with ME CFS Pain and daily Headaches. Demonstrates...

...As Children of Parents and Parents of Children - any Father and Mother should or would lay down their own life to protect their Child - or in this case...

...ask to be educated in a more profound manner, than is currently available.

Rather than Unfriend - are we really to consider when we Unfriend a Person they and more importantly the painful-truthful discussion went away; instead of becoming more or as consuming as the illness - because the Mind cannot cope with Unanswered Questions.


Update 19th February 2016

May I make things abundantly clear this numbered list - which must not be taken as complete, as there are some 7 billion People in the world and their Perceptive View of their illness will be unique, is not of my own making or writing - it was sent to me and was clearly headed as written by anonymous...

In addition I have constructed a numbered list in preference to items 1 to 25 as the original paper demonstrated.

Before we start we must be clear in our Mind all of the content of this paper refers to activity applied unwittingly by loving Parents to their Children.

Whether a Parent knows or not of their actions and the very long-term effect their loving actions have on their Children's Mental and Physical Health and everything they do in their lives that has a negative - for them, connotation, pales into insignificance - as for me the indisputable fact they do not have a clue how this activity was created and more importantly "why."

However if questioned with care it will be abundantly erroneously labelled as Family inheritance yet abundantly clear it was as their own Parents.

Therefore every Parent is responsible - but not in the slightest Guilty as the true cause sue of their Children's illness.




...Written by Anonymous added to by Peter Smith Talking Cures.

It will be noted I have purposely removed the word Narcissistic (Descriptive names or labels are of no real value) and any reference to just one Parent; even though it initially appeared to be the making of only Mother - the Father will be implicated, even in their absence.

And in the original paper - insidiously the writing turned from Mother to Father to Parents.

Indicating with the utter brilliance of this paper it was written from the Emotional Phenotype perspective, built from the collective of all memories good bad or indifferent. as a result of...

1. The Destructive Narcissistic Parent creates a Child that only exists to be an extension of herself. It is about secret things.

Response: This secret is at the heart of all illness to ensure we are denied access to the true cause of ALL illness.

2. It is about Body language.

3. It is about disapproving glances.

4. It is about vocal tone.

5. It is very intimate.

6. it is very powerful.

7. It is part of who the Child is.

8. Everything the perpetrator does is deniable.

9. There is always a plausible excuse or an explanation.

10. Cruelties are couched in loving terms.

11. Aggressive and hostile acts are paraded as thoughtfulness.

12. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts.

13. Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern.

14. Parent only wants what is best for their Child.

15. Parents only want to help their Child.

16. Parents rarely says right out that they thinks we are inadequate.

17. Instead, any time the Child tells them they have done something good, one or both counter with something a sibling did that was better or they simply ignore or only hears the Child out without saying anything, then in a short time does something cruel to - so the Child understands, it must not get above itself.

18. Parents will carefully separate cause - A Child's joy in their accomplishment, from effect - refusing to let them borrow the car to go to the special event, by enough time that someone who did not live through their abuse - would never believe the connection.

19. Many of their put downs are simply by comparison.

20. Often Parents talk about how wonderful someone else is or what a wonderful job they did - on something their Child has also done or how highly they think of them.

21. The contrast is left up to the Child.

22. Thus they have let the Child know they are no good - without saying a word.

23. Parents can completely deniably, spoil a Child's pleasure in something - by congratulating them in an angry, envious voice - that conveys how unhappy they are again.

24. It is impossible to confront someone over their tone of voice, their demeanour or the way they look at you, for once a Parent has a Child trained, they can promise terrible punishment without a word.

25. As a result, Children are always afraid, always in the wrong and can never exactly put your finger on why.

26. Because abusiveness is part of a lifelong campaign of control and because they are careful to rationalize the abuse, it is extremely difficult to explain to other People what is so bad about them.

27. One Parent being so very careful about when and how they engage in the abuse.

28. As a result demanding secrecy, a characteristic of almost all abusers We “Do not wash our dirty laundry in public!” Do We." and will punish you for telling anyone else what they have done.

29. The times and locations of the worst abuses are carefully chosen so that no one who might intervene will hear or see bad behaviour and they will seem like a completely different Person in public.

30. Parents in this mode are very capable of denigrating their offspring to other People, but will always embed there devaluing nuggets of snide gossip in protestations of concern, love and understanding “I feel so sorry for my poor son/daughter.

31. Always Person with this disposition seems to have such a hard time, "but I just do not know what I can do for them!”

32. As a consequence the Children of such Parents universally report - that no one believes them, “I have to say your Parents always talks about YOU in the most caring way!" is often repeated back to them

33. Unfortunately therapists, given the same Parental deniable actions and eager to defend a fellow Parent, will often jump to the same activity, reinforcing Peoples sense of isolation and helplessness with,. “I am sure they did not mean it like that!”

34. One or other Parents or even both together violate Children's boundaries.

35. Often a Child even as an adult feels just like an extension or Clone of their Parents.

36. As a visual and emotional punishment a Child's property can be given away without consent, sometimes in front of the Child/Adult.

37. Even to the point food is eaten off the Child's plate or given to others.

38. Parents may repossess property and no reason given - other than that it was never was their Child's.

39. Parents may commit their Child's time without consulting them and opinions purported to be theirs are expressed for them. Thinking, "my Child just LOVES doing what I want them to do!"

40. A loving Parent would demonstrate their love with. "My Child would never want anything like that."

41. And discuss in their loved Child's presence as though they are not there.

42. Moreover keeps tabs on their bodily functions and humiliate them by divulging the information gleaned.

43. Especially when it can be used to demonstrate Parental devotion and highlight the martyrdom to their Child's needs.

44. Demonstrated by. “My son had a problem with frequent urination, only his was much worse. I was so worried about him!”

45. A child of such Parents have never known what it is like to have privacy in the bathroom or in their bedroom - as Parents regularly treat them as their own.

46. Asking nosy questions, snoops into email/letters/diary/conversations.

47. Digging into their Children's feelings is often a necessity for controlling Parents, particularly painful ones - always looking for negative information which can be used against them.

48. Even frequently doing things against their Child's expressed wishes.

49. All of this is done without seeming embarrassment or thought.

50. Any attempt at autonomy on the Child's part is strongly resisted.

51. Normal rites of passage - learning to shave, wearing makeup, dating are grudgingly allowed - only if the Child insists and yet are most times punished for insistence. “Despite being old enough to date."

52. Parents are able to protest their authority with. "I think you are old enough to pay for your own clothes!”

53. Sadly If a Child - no matter what age, demand age-appropriate clothing, grooming, control over their own life, or rights, they are labeled as difficult and often ridiculed for their desire for; “independence.”.

54. Parents create favoritism commonly choose one - sometimes more of their Children to be the golden Child and one - sometimes more, to be the scapegoat.

55. The Parent identifies with the golden Child and provides privileges to him or her as long as the golden Child - does just as the controller wants.

56. The golden Child has to be cared for assiduously by everyone in the family.

57. The scapegoat has no needs and instead gets to do the caring.

58. The golden Child can do nothing wrong.

59. The scapegoat is always at fault.

60. This creates divisions between the Children, one of whom has a large investment in the Parent being wise and wonderful and the other(s) who hate.

61. That division will be fostered by the Parent with lies and with blatantly unfair and favoritism behaviour.

62. The golden Child will defend the Parent and indirectly perpetuate the abuse by finding reasons to blame the scapegoat for the Parents actions.

63. The golden Child may also directly take on the Parents tasks by physically abusing the scapegoat so the Parent does not have to do that them self.

64. Parents controlling and bullying ways undermines their Child's confidence.

65. Where accomplishments are acknowledged - only to the extent that Parents can take credit for.

66. Any success or accomplishment for which Parents cannot take credit, is ignored or diminished.

67. Any time as a Child or grown up are to be Center stage and there is no opportunity for a Parent to be the center of attention, they will try to prevent the occasion altogether, or not attend, leave early, acts like it is no big deal, steals the spotlight, slips in little wounding comments about how much better someone else did - or how what their Child did was not as much as they could have done or as was expected they would do.

68. Parents undermine their Children by picking fights with them or being especially unpleasant - just before you have to make a major achieving effort.

69. One or both Parents act as if put out if they have to do anything to support their Children's opportunities or will outright refuse to do even small things in support of them.

70. Confirmed with - being nasty about things that are peripherally connected with successes - so that finding joy in what has been achieved is tarnished, without ever saying anything directly about it.

71. No matter what success, Parents have to take their Children down a peg or two.

72. By demeaning, criticising and denigrating.

73. Parents let their Children know in all sorts of little ways they think less of one Child than they do of a siblings or of other People in general.

74. If a Child complains about mistreatment by someone else, a Parent will take that Persons side - even if they do not know them at all.

75. Parents do not care about those People or the justice of your complaints.

76. Just wanting to let their offspring know they are never right.

77. Parents will deliver generalised spears (Emotional damaging comments looks and intonations) that are almost impossible to rebut - always in a loving, caring tone: “You were always difficult.” “You can be very difficult to love.” “You never seemed to be able to finish anything.” “You were very hard to live with.” “You are always causing trouble.” “No one could put up with the things you do.”

78. Moreover will deliver spears in a sidelong way - for example by complaining about how “no one” loves them, does anything for them, or cares about them, or complain that “everyone,” is so selfish, when their Child is the only Person in the room.

79. As always, this combines criticism with deniability.

80. Always slipping little comments into conversation that they really enjoyed some activity with someone else - yet something with a Child was not liked as much.

81. letting a Child know that there relationship with some other Person jointly known; is wonderful - in a way the relationship with their Child is not - the carefully unspoken message being that - their loved one does not matter much.

82. Parents so often minimises, discounts or ignore. Child opinions and experiences.

83. Your insights are often met by Parents with condescension, denials and accusations. “I think you read too much!” and they will brush off information - even on subjects on which the Child has become an acknowledged expert.

84. Whatever you say is met with smirks and amused sounding or exaggerated exclamations - “Uh Hun!” “You do not say!” “Really!”

85. Then make it clear that they did not listen to a word the Child said.

86. Often resulting to making their Child appear crazy and If one try's to confront them about something they have done or not, they will protest Son/Daughter you have “a very vivid imagination.” A phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate others experience of their abuse, continuing with that you do not know what you are talking about, or that they have no idea what you are talking about.

87. Claiming not to remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will they ever acknowledge any possibility that they might have forgotten.

88. This is an extremely aggressive and exceptionally infuriating tactic called “gas lighting,” common to abusers of all kinds.

A. Gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favour the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception and sanity.

89. Where a Persons perceptions of reality are continually undermined so that one ends up without any confidence in ones intuition, memory or powers of reasoning.

90. Thereby making a Child/Adult a much better victim for the abuser.

91. Such Parents will either insinuate or will say outright that their Child is unstable, otherwise they would not say ridiculous things or be so uncooperative.

92. Stating with assurance their Child is: oversensitive, imagining things, hysterical. completely unreasonable, over-reacting - like always.

93. Demanding only to talk when their Child has calmed down and are not so irrational.

94. Even as far as characterising their Child as being neurotic or psychotic.

95. Once a Parent has constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, they will tell others about them, as always, presenting the smears as expressions of concern and declaring their own helpless victim hood.

96. With they did not do anything.

97. Protesting they have no idea why their Children are so irrationally angry with them.

98. having hurt them terribly.

99. They think psychotherapy may be required.

100. They love so very much and would do anything to make their Children happy, but just does not know what to do.

101. Why do our Children keep pushing us away - when all we want to do is help.

102. They have simultaneously absolved them self of any responsibility for their Children's obvious antipathy towards them, implied that there is something fundamentally wrong that makes their Children angry with them and undermines Children's credibility with their listeners.

103. They plays the role of the doting Parents so perfectly that no one will believe their Children.

104. Any time a Child/Adult get something nice they become angry and envious bemoaning apparent when admiring - whatever it is.

105. They will try to get it from the Child, spoil it for or get the same or better for them self.

106. Always working on ways to get what other People have.

107. The envy of such Parents often includes competing sexually with their sons/daughters -in-law.

108. Attempting to forbid their Daughters to wear makeup or Sons to groom themselves in an age-appropriate way or to date.

109. They will criticize the appearance of their Sons/Daughters and Sons/Daughters-in-law.

110. This envy extends to relationships. Parents infamously attempt to damage their children's marriages and interfere in the upbringing of their grandchildren.

111. Often lying in too many ways to count.

112. Any time a Parent talks about something that has emotional significance for them, it is a fair bet that they are lying.

113. Lying is one way to create conflict in the relationships and lives of those around them – often lying about what other People have said, what they have done, or how they feel.

114. They will lie about their relationship with them, about their Children's behaviour or situation in order to inflate them self and to undermine credibility.

115. Parents are very careful about how they lie.

116. To outsiders they will lie thoughtfully and deliberately, always in a way that can be covered up if confronted with the lie.

117. Spinning what was said rather than make something up.

118. Putting dishonest interpretations on things their Children actually did.

119. If they have recently done something particularly outstandingly shocking they may engage in preventative lying: lying in advance to discount what their Child/Adult might say before saying anything.

120. Then when an attempt to discuss what a Parent did you will be cut off with. “I already know all about it… your (insert family member or friend) told me… Confirmation and of self-justifications of lies.

121. Because they are so careful about deniability, it may be very hard to catch them in the lies and the more gullible of friends may never realize how dishonest they are.

122. However to their Children they will blatantly lie.

123. Often claiming to be unable to remember bad things they have done, even if the most recent and even if it was something very memorable.

124. Of course, trying to jog their memory by recounting the circumstances, one will be reminded in no uncertain terms “You have a very vivid imagination” or “That was so long ago.

125. With. "Why dredge up old grudges.”

126. Conversations with such Parents are full of casual brush-offs, diversionary lies and with so little respect - to bother making it sound good.

127. For example they will start with a self-serving lie: “If I do not take you as a dependent on my taxes I will lose three thousand pounds/dollars!” The lie is refuted with an obvious truth: “No, three thousand pounds/dollars is the amount of the dependents exemption. You will only lose about eight hundred pounds/dollars.” There response: “Is not that what I said?” You are now in a game with only one rule: You cannot win.

128. On the rare occasions they are forced to acknowledge some bad behaviour, by offering the admission deniably. By “guessing,” that “maybe,” they, “might have,” done something wrong.

129. Such wrongdoing is always heavily spun and trimmed to make it sound better.

130. The words “I guess,” “maybe,” and “might have” are in and of themselves lies because they know exactly what they did - no guessing, no might haves, and no maybees.

131. They have to be the center of attention all the time.

132. This need is a defining trait of afflicted Parents and particularly for whom their Children exist only to be self -fulfilling sources of attention and adoration.

133. Parents love to be waited on and often pepper their Children with little but barked requests, like. “While you are up…” or an equivalent to another one of their favourite phrases.

134. They would not be guiding or thoughtful enough assigned a set of chores in exchange for pocket money at the beginning of the week or of the day, instead, there was an expectation to do it on demand, preferably at a time that was inconvenient, or it was demanded to “help,” by fetching and carrying while they made up ready for the menial work a Parent "HAD, to do - for glorying in your attentions.

135. A Parent may create odd occasions at which they can be the center of attention, such as memorials for someone close who died long ago, or major celebrations of small personal milestones.

136. loving to entertain so they can be the life and soul of the party.

137. Parents will try to steal the spotlight or will try to spoil any occasion where someone else is the center of attention, particularly the Child cast as the scapegoat.

138. Often invites them self along - where is no welcome.

139. During a reciprocal visit, thus Entertaining them self is unthinkable. And their Child/adult is required to spend all the time with them.

140. Parents often scream they are being manipulated or become raged if a Child tried to do anything without specific authority, or did not want to entertain, refused to wait on them, stymied their plans for a drama or otherwise deprived them of attention.

141. Older Parents often use the natural limitations of aging to manipulate dramas, often by neglecting their health or by doing things - they know will make them ill.

142. This gives them the opportunity to cash in on the investment they made when they trained their Children to wait on them.

143. Then they call you - or better still, get the neighbour or the nursing home administrator to call, demanding an immediate attendance.

144. Expected to drop everything important to the Child and rush to their side, pat their hand, weep over the pain and listen sympathetically to unending complaints about how hard and awful it is. Rubbed in with that old abrasive ointment - “Never get old!”

145. It is almost never the case that a Child can actually do anything useful and the causes of the Parents disability may have been completely avoidable, but they put their Children in an extremely difficult position.

146. If a Child does not provide the audience an attention they are manipulated to give, they look extremely bad to everyone else and may even have legal culpability. Such behaviours commonly accompany Alzheimer's’s disease, so this behaviour may also occur in perfectly normal Parents as they age.

147. Parents manipulate emotions in order to feed on their Children's pain.

148. This exceptionally sick and bizarre behaviour is so common among Parents that their children often call them - “emotional or even Psychic vampires.”

149. Some of this emotional feeding comes in the form of pure sadism.

150. Parents do and says things just to be wounding or engages in tormenting teasing or just needles their Children about things they are sensitive about, all the while a cynical smile plays over their lips.

151. They may have taken their Children to scary movies or told horrifying stories, then mocked them for being a baby when they cried.

152. Often slipping wounding comments into conversation and will smile delightedly into your hurt face.

153. You can hear the laughter in their voice as they pressure you or say distressing things to you.

154. Later gloating over how much they upset you, gaily telling other People that you are so much fun to tease and recruiting others to share in her amusement.

155. Makes no effort to disguise that they enjoy the cruelties.

156. Wanting it to be known that their Child's pain entertains.

157. Parents often bring up subjects that are painful and probe about them, all the while watching their Child carefully.

158. This is emotional vampirism in its purest form.

159. Feeding emotionally off Children's pain.

160. A peculiar form of this emotional vampirism combines attention-seeking behaviour with a demand that the audience suffer.

161. Since Parents with this disposition often play the martyr which may take the form of wrenching, self-pitying dramas which are carefully produced and in which - they are the star performer.

162. Able to result to sobs and wails that no one loves them and everyone is so selfish that they do not want to live, Proclaiming they want to die! They want to die!

163. Not seeming to care how much the manipulation of their emotions and the self-pity repels other people.

164. One weird behaviour that is very common to such damaged People: are dramas that may center around the tragedies of other People, often relating how much they have suffered by association as they cry over the horrible murder of someone they would not recognize - if they had passed on the street.

165. Demonstrating being selfish and willful.

166. Always making sure they have the best of everything.

167. Insisting on having their own way all the time and will ruthlessly, manipulatively pursue it, even if the desired outcome is not worth all the effort put into it, even if that effort goes far beyond normal behaviour.

168. Often making a huge effort to get something denied them, even if it was entirely right to do so and even if the demand was selfish and unreasonable.

169. If you tell them they cannot bring friends to the party, they will show up with them anyway and they will have told them that they were invited so that, either they have to be given into, or be the bad guy to these poor dupes on the doorstep.

170. Moreover if you tell them they cannot come over to your house tonight they will call your spouse and try get him or her to agree that they can - and to not say anything about it because it is a, “surprise.”

171. In order to demonstrate that, “no, is not an option.”

172. One near-universal characteristic of such determined People is because they are so selfish and self-centred, they are very bad gift givers.

173. They will give out hand-me-downs or market things intended for themselves as gifts.

174. “I thought I would give my old bicycle and buy myself a new one!”

175. “I know how much my Children love Italian food, so I am going to take them to my favourite restaurant for their birthday!”

176. New gifts are often obviously cheap and are usually things that do not suit or their Children cannot use or are a quid pro quo: if you buy them the gift they want, they will buy an item of the Child's/Adults choice.

177. Making it clear that it pains to give their Child anything.

178. They may buy their Child a gift and get the identical item for them self, or take the Child shopping for a gift and get them self something nice at the same time to make themselves feel better.

179. They are self-absorbed. where feelings, needs and wants are very important; their Children's are insignificant to the point that the least whim takes precedence over the Child's most basic needs.

180. Their problems deserve others immediate and full attention; others requirements are brushed aside.

181. Their wishes always take precedence; if they do something for others, they constantly remind all in hearing distance of their generous actions and in so doing will often try to extract some sort of Emotional Payment.

182. They will complain constantly, even though others situation may be much worse.

183. If others point out their indiscretions, they will effortlessly, thoughtlessly brush it aside as of no importance, with. - It is easy for everyone… It is different for everyone.

184. They insanely, defensively are extremely sensitive to any criticism.

185. If anyone dare criticize or defy them - they will explode with fury, threaten, storm, rage, destroy and may become violent, beating, confining, putting the Child outdoors in bad weather or otherwise engaging in classic physical abuse.

186. It is easy to provoke their wrath because they take everything personally and any attitude short of constant emotional and physical availability - is perceived as a slight.

187. If anyone is short with them because they are exhausted or depressed, they have to have it out or major discussions over others, “hostility.”

188. If a toddler shouts. “I hate you,” at them they get angry and punitive.

189. If their Child refuses their nosy requests to let them read received letters - they shout about how unappreciative are their Children and how hard they have it.

190. They have no sense of perspective or separation and cannot let anything go.

191. Because the Parents are so extremely defensive they are completely resistant to change.

192. Such Parents infamously cannot be helped and if anything, change for the worse when offered assistance.

193. They terrorise. All abusers use Fear to control their Victims and controlling Parents use it ruthlessly to train their Children.

194. Always teaching their Children to beware their wrath - even when they are not present.

195. The only alternative is constant placation.

196. If you give them everything they want all the time, you might appear to be spared.

197. If you do not, the punishments will come.

198. Even adult Children of such Parents still feel - that carefully calculated Fear.

199. Turning on this Fear - with a silence or a look that tells the Child they are thinking about how they are going to get even.

200. Not all Parents abuse physically, many do, often in subtle, deniable - by them, ways.

201. It allows them to vent their rage at the failure to be the solution to their internal havoc and simultaneously to teach their Children to Fear them.

202. You may not have been beaten, but you were almost certainly left to endure physical pain when a normal Parent would have made an effort to relieve their Child's misery.

203. This deniable form of battery allows them to store up rage and dole out the punishment at a later time when they have worked out an airtight rationale for the abuse, thereby never risking exposure.

204. Children are left hungry because “they eat too much.”

205. To hide the resentment of having to take care of the Children they are always sent to school with stomach flu - as “they do not have a fever, or they are just trying to get out of going to school.”

206. Screamed at with "Children have a lot of nerve getting sick and adding to their burdens.

207. “Child you wanted those shoes. Now you can wear them.” although you said the ones a Parent wanted to get you were ugly.

208. Refusing to look at the bloody heels and instead the shoes that made the blisters on your heels are put back on your feet and you are sent to the store in them.

209. Because they liked them as they were just like what they wore 30 years ago.

210. The dentist was told not to give the Child Novocain when drilling the tooth because “they have to learn to take better care of teeth.” As the parent has to pay for a filling and is furious at having to spend money.

211. Unlike psychopaths, Parents do understand right, wrong, and the consequences, so they are not ordinarily criminals.

212. Often beating their Children, but not to the point where hospitalisation is required.

213. Able to leave their Children standing out in the cold until they were miserable, but not until they had hypothermia.

214. Able to put their Children in the Cupboard/Basement in the dark with no clothes on, but retorted they only left the Child there for two hours.

215. Parents also abuse by loosing others on their Children or by failing to protect them when a normal Parent would have.

216. Sometimes a Parent's golden Child will be encouraged to abuse the scapegoat.

217. Parents also abuse by exposing their Children to violence.

218. If one of the siblings was beaten, the offending Parent - made sure it was seen.

219. Effortlessly putting the Fear of significant others onto their Children, without even touching them.

220. Parents can be infantile and petty.

221. Parents can be simply Childish.

222. If a Child refuses to let a Parent manipulate them into doing something, the Parent will cry they are not loved - because if the Child loved - they would do as demanded.

223. If Children hurt Parents feelings they will aggressively whine - you will be sorry when we are dead that you did not treat us better.

224. Anytime Parents feel hard-done-by, they pout, whine and gives the silent treatment.

225. When the Children are young - Parents would justify things they did by pointing out something the Child did that was comparable, as though the Childish behaviour of a Child was justification for the Childish behaviour of an adult. “Getting even” is a large part of their dealings with Children.

226. Anytime Children fail to give Parents the attention or service they feel is deserved, or the Child thwarts their wishes, they have to show the Child.

227. Parents can be aggressive and shameless.

228. Not asking - demanding.

229. By making outrageous requests and taking anything they want if it is felt they can get away with it.

230. Demands of their Children are posed in a very aggressive way, as are criticisms.

231. Taking "no" for an answer is not an option, confirmed with - pushing, arm-twisting and manipulating to get the Child to give in.

232. Parents often gloss things up to their satisfaction.

233. Shedding responsibilities to the Child as soon as they were able, leaving the Child to take care of them self as best they could.

234. Parents can deny medical care, adequate clothing, necessary transportation or basic comforts they would never have considered giving up them self.

235. Never allowing a birthday party or friends sleep overs.

236. Friends were never welcome in the house.

237. Refusing to drive Children anywhere, forcing invitations to be refused as there was no way to get there.

238. Would not buy school pictures even if funds permitted.

239. Parents are very capable of restricting their Child's clothing allowance or purchasing the cheapest clothing - without embarrassing them self.

240. As soon as their Child became employed, every request for supplies, clothing or toiletries was met with “Now that you are making money you can pay for that yourself.”

241. Parents also gave Children tasks that were rightfully theirs and should not have been placed on a Child.

242. Making the Child a primary caregiver for younger siblings or an incapacitated Parent.

243. Responsibility for excessive household tasks.

244. Above all one or more Children were always made to be Parents emotional caregiver - any defection from that role caused such enormous eruptions of rage.

245. Children are never allowed to be needy or have bad feelings or problems.

246. Those experiences were only for them and Children were responsible for making it right.

247. From the time you were very young they would randomly lash out any time they were stressed or angry with the other Parent or felt that life was unfair making them feel better to hurt their Child.

248. Often punishing out of the blue, for manufactured offenses.

249. As the Children got older they directly placed responsibility for their welfare and emotions on the Children, weeping on a handy shoulder and unloading anytime - something went awry for them.

250. Parents can be very exploitive.

251. Will manipulate to get work, money, or objects they envies out of other People for nothing.

252. This includes their Children.

253. If they set up a bank account for their Child, remaining trustee on the account with the right to withdraw money.

254. As the Child put money into it, they took it out.

255. Even to the point of stealing their Child's identity.

256. Filing as a dependent on their income taxes, thereby disallowing independent filing - without exposing them to criminal penalties.

257. If an agreement was made, it was violated the minute it no longer served their needs.

258. If this was brought up - demanding they adhere to the agreement, they would brush off and later punish so they would not be defied again.

259. Sometimes a Parent will exploit a Child to absorb punishment that would have been theirs from an abusive Partner.

260. The Husband comes home in a drunken rage and the Mother immediately complains about the Child’s bad behaviour - so the drunken rage, is vented on to the Child.

261. Sometimes the Parent simply uses the Child to keep a sick marriage intact because the alternative is being divorced or having to go to work or work harder.

262. The Child is sexually molested but the other Parent never notices, or worse, calls the Child a liar - when they tell about the molestation.

263. This sounds a little like psycho-babble, but it is something that many Parents do.

264. Projection means that the Parent will put their own bad behaviour, character and traits onto their Child so they can deny them in them self and punish the Child.

265. This can be very difficult to see if one has traits that a Parent can project on to.

266. An eating-disordered Parent who obsesses over their Child's weight is projecting.

267. The Child may not realise it because they has probably internalised an absurdly thin vision of a Parents weight and so accepts the projection.

268. When the Parent tells the Child they eat too much, needs to exercise more, or has to wear extra-large size clothes, the Child believes it, even if it is not true.

269. However, a Parent will sometimes project even though it makes no sense at all.

270. This happens when a Parent feels shamed and needs to put it on the scapegoat child and the projection - therefore comes across, as being an attack out of the blue.

271. For example: By making an outrageous requests and the Child casually refuses to let them have their way.

272. By becoming enraged by a refusal, snarls and will talk about it - only when the Child has calmed down and are no longer hysterical.

273. The Child may not be hysterical at all; the Parent is, but the refusal has made them feel the shame that should have stopped them from making - shameless demands in the first place.

274. By transferring the shame to the Child rationalises away the Child's response: who only refused because Parents can be so unreasonable.

275. Having done that the Parent can reassert their shamelessness and indulge their Childish willfulness - by turning an unequivocal refusal into a subject for further discussion.

276. With WE will talk about it again “later” - probably when they have worn down with histrionics, pouting and the silent treatment so the Child is more inclined to do as instructed/Demanded.

277. Because Parents are never wrong about anything.

278. No matter what they have done, they will never genuinely apologise for anything.

279. Instead, any time they feel being made to apologise they will sulk and pout, issue an insulting apology or negate the apology they have just made with justifications, qualifications or self-pity: “I am sorry it was felt that I humiliated” “I am sorry for the bad feeling” “If I did that, it was wrong” “I am sorry, but there is nothing I can do about it” “I am sorry for the feeling of being clumsy, stupid and disgusting” “I am sorry - but it was just a joke."

280. Why are my Children so over-sensitive” “I am sorry my own Child feels they have to upset me and make me feel bad.”

281. The last insulting apology is also an example of projection.

282. Sometimes Parents seem to have no awareness their Children even have feelings and yet is brilliantly sensitive to other People’s emotions.

283. Every child of such a Parent recognises this contradiction because Parents possess the ability to exercise empathy - in abundance.

284. Sometimes this ability also leads them to identify emotionally with People who are suffering and to express caring for them.

285. When caring about another’s suffering interferes with something the Parent wants, though - the caring vanishes.

286. When a Parent wants validation, when they feel like eliciting some emotional pain, when something they want hurts someone else, the empathy is turned off as though it never existed.

287. From the perspective of ability, Parents are extremely empathetic; indeed they have a gift of telling what other People are feeling and thinking.

288. Their skill at discerning and guiding the emotions of other People is the basis of many characteristically Parental interactions.

289. Such Parents are very socially adept - which is why no one ever believes their Children when they complain of their Parents actions.

290. They know just how to make everyone think that they are delightful.

291. Controlling Parents are exceptional manipulators and must be extremely aware, on a moment-by-moment basis, of the emotions of their targets.

292. If Parents do not know what People are feeling, they cannot push their buttons.

293. Their exceptional sensitivity to the feelings of others is also the wellspring of their pleasure in inflicting emotional pain through dramas and no-win scenarios.

294. Parents enjoy inflicting emotional pain and they do it very well because they know just what their target Children are feeling.

295. That exquisite sensitivity is the reason they do not need to batter.

296. They can inflict agony without lifting a finger, so why risk exposure and waste effort with beatings when they can elicit the same emotions with words alone?

297. What Parents lack is concern for the consequences of their actions, a behaviour that seems rooted in profound selfishness, rather than in the absence of empathy.

298. Yet Parents are certainly capable of feeling for others: they are always feeling for the People with whom their scapegoat has conflicts.

299. They feel for their fellow Parents with similar traits.

300. They feel for People who have validated and praised them.

301. They even feel for their Child when it does not cost them anything to do so.

302. They just do not feel for their Child when they are abusing them.

303. They do not feel anything that interferes with their absorption in their own wants and needs.

304. Because they scour their environment for validation of their own abusiveness, they defend their fellow abusers, they do not have any empathy for the victims of those abusers.., the following story seeks to demonstrate:

A four-year-old arrived at school with a hand print on their face, which had been inflicted as the result of a slap by Parents live-in Partner.

It appeared someone had called the authorities, but was told that they could understand why the Partner had hit the Child.

Then the authorities said in a dramatic tone dripping with sympathy. “You should have seen the Parents." They were so ashamed!”

Leaving one to question. “What difference - does that make to the Child?”

The Person from the authorities mouth dropped open and it became clear - they not only did not care at all about that poor little Child… it would never have occurred for them to care.

This demonstrates the misplaced empathy of the abuser for other abusers.

There was no empathy for the actual Victim.

Instead it was reserved for the Parent who let the Partner batter the Child.

A battered Child’s Parent identified with the abuser, a Parent themselves, afflicted with a Child who did not meet their needs.

All empathy actually attributed virtues to the fellow abuser and faults to the Victim that were not merited in reality.

Someone who hits a small Child hard enough to leave a hand print, then sends them to school, is not ashamed or concerned for the personality of a four-year-old, thus is not the fault of the Child!

The selfish empathy demonstrated by Parents - contrasts with the genuine empathy shown by normal People.

Sometimes a normal Person will give up something they really want for themselves because they come to recognise - that it will hurt another Person, if they do not.

A Parent will relentlessly go after something they want even if it is not worth the pain inflicted to get it.

Effortlessly engineering, “no-win,” situations that leave a Child violated and angry and not sure why they feel that way.

In the classic, “no-win,” scenario, the Child is subtly manipulated into a corner and then presented with a demand that the Child do something degrading, humiliating or painful in order to please the Parent.

Any response other than compliance triggers retaliation.

These sadistic scenes are a defining characteristic of Parents.

As so often with controlling behaviour, the payoff for the Parent is the elicitation of painful emotions.

Whether one subject oneself to the degradation or one fights back and provokes punishment from the Parent, the experience will be a sense of entrapment and fear and those emotions are very satisfying to them.

All pleasure is augmented by the pain they elicit by undermining, insulting and demeaning their Child and, as the scene winds down, by blaming them for the entire event.

These scenes are set up very stealthily; so much so that the Children rarely realise that a trap has been laid before it is sprung.

As always, the Parent maintains deniability, but the consistencies between scenes betray their deliberate nature.

Although the Parent plays the scene as though it was spontaneous, it never is.

It is scripted and premeditated and the stage is set well in advance.

If a scene plays out away from home, be assursured that the Parent is in charge of transportation so that the Child does not have the option of walking away.

If the scene is staged at home, it is almost always in the Parents home, not the Adult Child’s home and engineered so that once again, it is extremely difficult for the Child to walk away.

The Parent commonly arranges things so they are alone with their Victim, but may also use the presence of a young Child or complicit spouse to ensure that her target does not react angrily.

Often the worst part of these scenes for the Child is the awareness of how much the Parent enjoys this distress; the Children often describe their Parents, “little smile” and air of pleasure - as they play out the no-win scenario.

When confronted, some Parents will even defend their behaviour by saying they were; “just having fun.”

There is no betrayal more wounding than knowing your own Parent is reveling in the pain purposely caused, nor any emotion more delicious than your sense of shock and misery at the knowledge they are hurting deliberately and for fun.

Winning the Controlling Parent  Game - what can one do...

Question: Is there a cure for a Narcissist Masquerading as a Controlling Parent?

Answer: Let us look at the available information where the short or Scientific Medical Evidenced Based understandings answer as a treatment - appears to be...

The longer answer: it depends. Most importantly or Scientifically it depends on two things:

A. What levels of beliefs and attitudes he/she has devolved into.

B. might consist of individual psychotherapy, group therapy or even hospitalization, but no one is trumpeting any of these as anything near a cure.

Besides the fallibility of these treatments, it is a rare narcissist indeed who will submit themselves to the diagnosis and any sort of long-term treatment.

It is not uncommon for one to seek some sort of professional help, however - it is usually for other pain or trauma in their life, or even for another psychological disability.

In that case, they will convince them self and attempt to convince everyone around they are ‘getting so much better,’ even if they been going round the same psychotherapy mountain for 30 years or longer; the same narcissistic behaviour comes and goes, the same beliefs and attitudes remain.

Narcissism at its root is all about the will.

The reason a narcissist behaves and thinks the way they do is because of the discomfort at submitting their will to their Creator and their conscience.

Since they are so excruciatingly adept at self-deception, imagine how easy it must be for them to fool or - when this finally is no longer possible - ignore a therapist.

Ultimately, if they are unwilling to change, the behaviour becomes like a cancer, insidiously and finally reaching the stage known as - malignant narcissism.

Secular and Christian experts agree - there is no cure for malignant narcissism.

Which is hard for those of us who believe that, ‘nothing is impossible with God.’


Or is the truth: nothing is possible with God?

Can we then consider the equal truth is that God gave each of us free will or was it another significant Person/s.

We all of us appear to have choices to make every single day and let us face it - a lot of them are hard: To be offended or not to be offended, with...

A. To believe the best of someone.

B. To bless and not curse.

C. To pray for those who spitefully use us.

D. To forgive or not to forgive.

E. To be angry but sin not.

F. To believe the enemy's lies or God's truth.

G. To examine our ways. Usually - hopefully - we make the right choice.

H. But when we do not, usually - hopefully, we repent and keep going.

In addition: Proverbs 13:19 says about the arrogant fool, that… ’it is an abomination and disgusting thing for fools to depart - put aside, reject evil.’

The question remains: is there a suggestion from Medical Science there is a cure for malignant narcissism?

Let us continue to explore as it appears the short answer is: not unless the fool wants it.

Let us find out if there is something one can do about it:


how to beat the narcissist at his own game if one is tired of the narcissistic behaviour? and games of emotional chess.

A. Learn how to beat the narcissist at his own game.

B. The best way to do that is to get out of the game.

Sounds simple enough, right!

But let us talk a little more about that before we talk about the rules of the game.

On the outside, narcissistic behaviour seems to be all about self:

How the narcissist wants to be perceived.

How the narcissist wants to feel.

How the narcissist wants you to behave in the relationship.

It seems to be all about them.

Going a little deeper though, we find that the narcissist many times can be perceived as a generous or self-less person, which would seem to be contradictory.

Unless, of course, you are familiar enough with your narcissist to know that strings are always attached.

One type of narcissist may be quick to anger, while another type will simply shrivel up when unhappy and force others to figure out what it is that wounded them.

In either case though, you will be made to pay.

Sometimes your narcissist may play at being, ‘victim,’ needing you to reassure and console and at other times they may take center-stage as the ‘rescuer,’ to be admired and praised.

And while you are trying to keep up with the narcissist as they change roles in this game, you also have to continue to change roles, in an effort at self-preservation.

When they are the victim, you must be the rescuer.

When they are the rescuer - they need someone to rescue.

You must seemingly always play the flip-side to this narcissistic character of the moment.

Rules of Engagement Actually, self-preservation, is less of a ‘flip-side’ to narcissistic behaviour and more of a matter of degrees on a scale: too little self-preservation and we end up as continual victims; too much self-preservation and we ourselves end up exhibiting classic narcissistic behaviour.

When we continue in a relationship with a narcissist, we usually end up sliding along that scale from one degree to another, from one extreme to another, without realizing that it is a game.

The roles may be fluid, but the objective of the game never changes and that is this:

A. Simply to keep the game going.

B. And to keep the game going, it is imperative that both parties participate.

Another simple rule of the game is this: you will never win.

Okay, so those are the rules of the game so far.

To recap:

1. keep the game going

2. both parties must participate

3. you never win; Some game, huh. face questions.

But the conundrum of the game is this:

If you want to win the game, get out of the game.

If you are still interested in beating a narcissist at their own game, read on to learn how.

THE DRAMA and the narcissist.

The following discussion is addressing dysfunctional families, but the principles apply to anyone in a relationship with a narcissist.

Recovery is often a long and painful process for adult Children of dysfunctional families, but sometimes it can be made easier when you understand the systems and patterns that run your life.

If you were raised in a dysfunctional family, you have, for the most part, been raised to be inauthentic, to lie to yourself and others about what you are feeling and what motivates you.

You have been raised to play psychological games with yourself and others.

Although true insights about those games come from doing deep levels of process work, it often helps to have a framework of understanding from which to view your daily situations and some steps to follow to help you out of the dilemmas.


the Drama is a description of one of the most persuasive and damaging psychological games played today.

If we begin to clarify the drama so that it could be used as a major tool in the understanding of dysfunctional families.

The Drama now can be used to describe the various processes characteristic of all dysfunctional families, including addictive families.

By understanding the roles designated in the way they interact and the rules that ensnare you, you can learn to avoid becoming entangled in the drama that the precipitates.


If you come from a family suffering from alcoholism, incest, emotional or physical violence or chronic codependency, you are probably aware of the chaos and drama that was part of growing up in a dysfunctional home.

Having been raised in a dysfunctional family, you realize that you were expected to act out a particular role in the family for the family's benefit.

You were expected to be inauthentic.

You were not allowed to be in touch with who you are, how you were feeling and what truly motivated you.

If you were raised in a dysfunctional family, you are already familiar with the Drama, although you never had a name for what you were experiencing.

All you would know is that you felt awful and nothing seemed to turn out the way you had hoped or expected.

What you were experiencing was being caught and having to play out the various roles and moves governed by the nature of the Parent.

The Drama is the representation of a complex interaction process involving the participating roles of victim, persecutor and rescuer.

The Triangle is based on blame and guilt and is put into operation whenever any type of lie or denial occurs.

Without blame, guilt or lies there would be no chaos.

Instead there would be healthy responsible relationships based on honest communications.

More DRAMA and the Narcissist.

If you look at the Triangle and place it upside down on one of the points, rather than on its triangle side.

This configuration emphasizes the pivotal position of the victim.

To understand the Triangle, it would, therefore, be best to start with that position.

Before exploring the Triangle in depth, it is important to remember that participating in any role in the Triangle does not mean that you are a bad Person.

It means that you are caught in the dysfunctional programming you grew up with and within your family.


The victim position is the key role in the Triangle because it is the position around which the others revolve.

People operating in the victim position are often if not always unable to take full responsibility for their actions or feelings as. there is a deep seated belief they are the ones responsible but do not know why.

As they truly believe they are life's fall guys.

Yet with a Perception is that everyone in the world is. "Doing it to them."

They continually look for someone or something else to blame for things not working in their lives and the same time blaming themselves.

Victims can frequently be identified by their usage of such language as: Everyone/anyone does it to me; you/they the government, my mother, father, boss, spouse, children, etc. do it to me; poor me!


There are two basic types of victims, the pathetic victim and the angry victim.

The pathetic victim plays the pity-ploy using woeful "poor me," looks and the desolate language of self-pity.

While the angry victim pretends to be powerful, using phrases, such as: "I won't let you do it to me." "Look what you did to me." "You are not going to do that to me again." or "you are bad."

Both types of victim are looking for someone to blame for the emotions they are having and for their lives not working.

In addition, they look for a rescuer, someone they can, "hook" into taking care of them and their responsibilities.

Victims manipulate others into doing what they want with blame and guilt.

They will find someone that they can blame for their unfulfilled lives.

The victim sees this Person as a persecutor or Punitive Person.

If that Person believes the victim and accepts the blame, then they will feel guilty and try to remedy the situation.

As soon as the narcissist tries to fix things for the victim, they move from persecutor to rescuer.


Let's take an example of two friends and watch how the victim operates and tries to manipulate the friend into rescuing him:

having known each other since grade school.

One of them holds down a responsible position as an assistant manager for a large food chain, achieving this position by working the way up since graduation from high school six years earlier, when he began work as a box boy.

The other one has never held down a job for more than three months.

Rarely arriving anywhere on time anywhere, especially work, but always has some excuse.

Thus is a victim.

Claiming the world picks on him and no one understands.

One day the victim shows up at the heroes, wanting to borrow their car.

As their car is in the shop by not check the oil destroyed the engine.

Saying that he has a job interview and tried to borrow his mother's car, but she refused to let him use it.

Moreover has taken no responsibility for not taking care of his own car.

Now the victim, enters his friends house, blaming his mother for stopping him from going to the job interview and calling her names because she would not lend him her car.

Thus mother is cast as the persecutor and her Son is trying to manipulate his closest friend into the rescuer role by implying he will be to blame if the job interview cannot be attended.

The last time he had car trouble, even before asking for it was offered for a few hours, Yet he kept it for several days and his friend had to take the bus to work until he could get his car back.

When he finally got it back, it had two dents in the door he protested were there before and refused to have them repaired.

He was not aware how upset was his friend who had never learned how to communicate his feelings or take care of himself in this type of situation.

His Parents had taught him that it was not nice to get angry with People.

During a second request to borrow the car, he tried to make his friend feel guilty and believe it would be is fault if he could not get to the new interview.

If and by feeling guilty, the friend would be "hooked" again, into the Triangle because he does not know how to deal with guilt in a healthy way.

He would loan the car and once again unwittingly become the rescuer.

Thereby now holding the responsibility If he did not loan the car this time, he would then once again become the persecutor.

Even if there are attempts to help by making suggestions about getting to the interview by bus, a narcissist would still find a way to blame the victim.

By claiming his friend was trying to make him look bad by having him show up by bus.

This being a demonstration of being raised in the Triangle without ever knowing it.

Having been trained against his Parents' and church's standards to believe that in order for to be good, one had to take care of other People - physically, emotionally, or spiritually; even at the cost of his own well-being.


Thus Children are drilled with the idea that to take care of himself was selfish and that selfishness was bad.

Therefore when a victim, is approached for the first time with tales of woe, they are a prime target for the manipulative hooks of guilt.

Because they already believed they should take care of other People's problems and if they did not, they are bad.

Therefore not wishing to be cast in the bad guy, persecutor role, any Person will quickly jump in to rescue the Narcissist now - the victim.

By doing something that was not in their best interest.

Children do not realise they were raised to be a rescuer or a Narcissist.

As or Parents did not realise that they were teaching their not to be selfish for their own selfish reasons, so that they would look good to those around them whom they wished to please.

More importantly the Parents did not realise they were setting their Children up so that no matter what they do with others they will always feel awful because they were raised in the Triangle and they do not know how to get out of it.

All that they know is how to do automatically move positions in The Triangle, not realising moving positions in the Triangle only produces more emotional and physical pain-illness.

Emotional Phenotype

Conclusion: As Children we are so often Born and spend our lives with a Knowing and a not Knowing something of importance - but unable to express this in an understandable manner, either for ourselves or for others to comprehend and understand.

This results in an Image we show to ourselves and others that is never the true Person we should have been this I have named as. "Our Emotional Phenotype."

Thankfully for many of us we are able to live our lives in a degree of Emotional and Physical comfort and enjoy our lives - A necessity, for us to engage with ourselves our close emotional Family Friends and Business relationships, as well the world as we know it.

It is when we are not able to achieve the Mind Body Life Balance the desire to answer the "Knowing " often surfaces - sometimes as a High Achievement and sadly many times a Lifetime of mysterious Mind and Body concerns that should but sadly does not allow us to find that understanding of the Knowing.

We can travel the world to it highest reaches achieve outstanding life events and still not find the elusive answer.

It is hoped this paper has answered some of the question we had no answers too and some of the answers we had questions for yet have never been able to put the two together that our Parents in the loving and wishing the very best for us only in reality made us clones of themselves and in so doing left us with a lifetime of knowing and not knowing they imposed on us a Fear we could never understand what caused it and thus could never relieve it.

Kindest regards and best wishes.

Peter Smith Talking Cures


...In illness - The Mind/Brain/Body is not in the slightest doing something wrong, it is desperately trying to right a serious and terrible wrong?

"No apologies are made if this paper is seen as repeating or simplistic, for too long Scientific Medical Papers have been written in a manner no one truly understands, if this were not so, cures would have long since been found making this paper and Talking Cures unnecessary or redundant.

Whilst it must be recognised, the framework - part of the content, for this paper is in the public domain and credit given to the individual authors;

Peter Smith Talking Cures asserts the right to be recognised as author and Intellectual ©Copyright holder of his contribution to this document...

 "Parents cause all illness." Author Peter Smith Talking Cures Copyright January 2016. Updated 13th February 2016.

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